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	<title>Comments on: The Real Road Map: Violent Reactions to the Struggle for Equal Rights</title>
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	<link>http://pulsemedia.org/2009/12/29/the-real-road-map-violent-reactions-to-the-struggle-for-equal-rights/</link>
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		<title>By: AJ</title>
		<link>http://pulsemedia.org/2009/12/29/the-real-road-map-violent-reactions-to-the-struggle-for-equal-rights/#comment-7041</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AJ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Dec 2009 14:57:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pulsemedia.org/?p=18098#comment-7041</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you for an insightful and thoughtful analysis. There may be points where there is disagreement (for example, terrorism vs. &#039;violent&#039; resistance) but these only up the topic to further healthy debate. I hope people like you keep writing, and keep finding platforms to reach more people.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for an insightful and thoughtful analysis. There may be points where there is disagreement (for example, terrorism vs. &#8216;violent&#8217; resistance) but these only up the topic to further healthy debate. I hope people like you keep writing, and keep finding platforms to reach more people.</p>
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		<title>By: Tali</title>
		<link>http://pulsemedia.org/2009/12/29/the-real-road-map-violent-reactions-to-the-struggle-for-equal-rights/#comment-7040</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tali]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Dec 2009 12:35:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pulsemedia.org/?p=18098#comment-7040</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yaniv, though god is debatable in anarchist circles, the concept is anti-anarchist. In my experience of such debates (though I wouldn&#039;t want to speak for anyone), many anarchists that believe in god are merely substituting the word &quot;spirituality&quot; with the word &quot;god&quot;. Furthermore, these settlers would align themselves with a state that did agree to their demands. Thus we return to criminality does not equal anarchy. Anarchy is first and foremost about equality, as a result of the basic anti-authoritarian stance. Authority is not just an official entity, it&#039;s also the applying of force against another- assuming authority, in itself, is an act of violence.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yaniv, though god is debatable in anarchist circles, the concept is anti-anarchist. In my experience of such debates (though I wouldn&#8217;t want to speak for anyone), many anarchists that believe in god are merely substituting the word &#8220;spirituality&#8221; with the word &#8220;god&#8221;. Furthermore, these settlers would align themselves with a state that did agree to their demands. Thus we return to criminality does not equal anarchy. Anarchy is first and foremost about equality, as a result of the basic anti-authoritarian stance. Authority is not just an official entity, it&#8217;s also the applying of force against another- assuming authority, in itself, is an act of violence.</p>
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		<title>By: qunfuz</title>
		<link>http://pulsemedia.org/2009/12/29/the-real-road-map-violent-reactions-to-the-struggle-for-equal-rights/#comment-7036</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[qunfuz]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Dec 2009 21:48:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pulsemedia.org/?p=18098#comment-7036</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yaniv - I would say that attacking population centres inside the green line and destroying Gaza are different because in the first case the ethnically cleansed are attacking those who have ethnically cleansed them on the land from which they have been cleansed, while in the second case the occupiers/ ethnic cleansers/ architects of apartheid are attacking the refugees in order to stamp out their resistance. In one case we see the violence of the oppressed against oppression; in the other we see the violence of the oppressor aganst the oppressed.

What distinguishes the settlers on the West Bank from the settlers in pre-48 Palestine? Certainly there are differences, but I don&#039;t think they are as clear cut as you suggest.

But I agree that attacks on cafes in Tel Aviv are not useful, at least not in the present circumstances, because they make it easy for Israeli ruling classes to trigger tribal responses among Israeli people, and to justify their rampages to the West as part of the &#039;war on terror&#039;. Again, I think this is a question of pragmatic politics, not of ethics.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yaniv &#8211; I would say that attacking population centres inside the green line and destroying Gaza are different because in the first case the ethnically cleansed are attacking those who have ethnically cleansed them on the land from which they have been cleansed, while in the second case the occupiers/ ethnic cleansers/ architects of apartheid are attacking the refugees in order to stamp out their resistance. In one case we see the violence of the oppressed against oppression; in the other we see the violence of the oppressor aganst the oppressed.</p>
<p>What distinguishes the settlers on the West Bank from the settlers in pre-48 Palestine? Certainly there are differences, but I don&#8217;t think they are as clear cut as you suggest.</p>
<p>But I agree that attacks on cafes in Tel Aviv are not useful, at least not in the present circumstances, because they make it easy for Israeli ruling classes to trigger tribal responses among Israeli people, and to justify their rampages to the West as part of the &#8216;war on terror&#8217;. Again, I think this is a question of pragmatic politics, not of ethics.</p>
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		<title>By: Yaniv Reich</title>
		<link>http://pulsemedia.org/2009/12/29/the-real-road-map-violent-reactions-to-the-struggle-for-equal-rights/#comment-7035</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Yaniv Reich]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Dec 2009 20:25:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pulsemedia.org/?p=18098#comment-7035</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks to all for the comments.  In the spirit of continuing the discussion, I wanted to add two points:

(1) Settlers as anarchists vs. nationalists.  This is a fascinating debate to hold.  Among significant portions of the ideological settlement community, which were the ones I implicitly had in mind, the State of Israel is an illegitimate entity because the true Jewish kingdom can be restored only by God.  Their allegiance, therefore, is not to a modern nation-state in any meaningful sense, but rather to an abstract theocracy they are working to establish.  They use the current state apparatus solely for their own self-serving, extraordinarily violent colonization project.  Does primary allegiance to such a theocratic vision, as opposed to the state of Israel, to which they have no real allegiance, yet in which they are citizens, reflect anarchist principles or not?  I think its an open question, which I would enjoy discussing.  Please note I was emphatically not using anarchist in a purely pejorative manner.        

(2) On &quot;terrorism&quot; vs. violent resistance.  Point taken.  I do want to make clear that I agree wholeheartedly with the right, as a human right, to resist violently your oppression.  But in my view the extent of this right is ethically unclear and subject to debate.  In particular, I have very serious qualms about extending this right into population centers &quot;inside the Green Line&quot;, as they say.  I have this reservation for the precise reason I find it morally reprehensible that Israel attempts to stop rocket fire by destroying Gaza City.  The scale is obviously very much more severe in the latter case, but I see the same ethical questions in play.  

By contrast, my own opinion is that the right to violent resistance would likely hold with respect not only to military actions against the IDF, but almost certainly against the settlers, who by stealing land and harassing/murdering Palestinians have forfeited their status as civilians.  (In case its not clear, these are ethical arguments rather than legal interpretations per se).  

These are for me interesting, and important, ethical questions that can and should be debated.  When I spoke of terrorist activity, and its benefits to the Israeli establishment, I had in mind not events like the attack on the settler last week, but attacks more like those against the cafes and discoteques of Tel Aviv.  It is those types of military actions that would best serve the interests of Israel&#039;s political and military elites at this uncertain time.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks to all for the comments.  In the spirit of continuing the discussion, I wanted to add two points:</p>
<p>(1) Settlers as anarchists vs. nationalists.  This is a fascinating debate to hold.  Among significant portions of the ideological settlement community, which were the ones I implicitly had in mind, the State of Israel is an illegitimate entity because the true Jewish kingdom can be restored only by God.  Their allegiance, therefore, is not to a modern nation-state in any meaningful sense, but rather to an abstract theocracy they are working to establish.  They use the current state apparatus solely for their own self-serving, extraordinarily violent colonization project.  Does primary allegiance to such a theocratic vision, as opposed to the state of Israel, to which they have no real allegiance, yet in which they are citizens, reflect anarchist principles or not?  I think its an open question, which I would enjoy discussing.  Please note I was emphatically not using anarchist in a purely pejorative manner.        </p>
<p>(2) On &#8220;terrorism&#8221; vs. violent resistance.  Point taken.  I do want to make clear that I agree wholeheartedly with the right, as a human right, to resist violently your oppression.  But in my view the extent of this right is ethically unclear and subject to debate.  In particular, I have very serious qualms about extending this right into population centers &#8220;inside the Green Line&#8221;, as they say.  I have this reservation for the precise reason I find it morally reprehensible that Israel attempts to stop rocket fire by destroying Gaza City.  The scale is obviously very much more severe in the latter case, but I see the same ethical questions in play.  </p>
<p>By contrast, my own opinion is that the right to violent resistance would likely hold with respect not only to military actions against the IDF, but almost certainly against the settlers, who by stealing land and harassing/murdering Palestinians have forfeited their status as civilians.  (In case its not clear, these are ethical arguments rather than legal interpretations per se).  </p>
<p>These are for me interesting, and important, ethical questions that can and should be debated.  When I spoke of terrorist activity, and its benefits to the Israeli establishment, I had in mind not events like the attack on the settler last week, but attacks more like those against the cafes and discoteques of Tel Aviv.  It is those types of military actions that would best serve the interests of Israel&#8217;s political and military elites at this uncertain time.</p>
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		<title>By: Edo</title>
		<link>http://pulsemedia.org/2009/12/29/the-real-road-map-violent-reactions-to-the-struggle-for-equal-rights/#comment-7034</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Edo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Dec 2009 19:20:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pulsemedia.org/?p=18098#comment-7034</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[And this is why they opened road #443 to Palestinian cars.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And this is why they opened road #443 to Palestinian cars.</p>
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		<title>By: Ismael Jabarine</title>
		<link>http://pulsemedia.org/2009/12/29/the-real-road-map-violent-reactions-to-the-struggle-for-equal-rights/#comment-7031</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ismael Jabarine]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Dec 2009 18:03:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pulsemedia.org/?p=18098#comment-7031</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree with Tali completely. No one anarchist could ever be a settler. Nationalism and anrchism are two contradictory things.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Tali completely. No one anarchist could ever be a settler. Nationalism and anrchism are two contradictory things.</p>
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		<title>By: qunfuz</title>
		<link>http://pulsemedia.org/2009/12/29/the-real-road-map-violent-reactions-to-the-struggle-for-equal-rights/#comment-7029</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[qunfuz]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Dec 2009 17:08:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pulsemedia.org/?p=18098#comment-7029</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Very good article, but I must agree with Roksana&#039;s comment. The word &#039;terrorist&#039; is unhelpful and propagandistic. I should also point out that there was a year or two (2001/2002) in Israel when bomb attacks came almost every day. Sadly, this level of activity could not be sustained. In the time that it did continue, however, it destroyed the Israeli tourism industry, hit the economy very hard, and made many Israelis apply for another passport. Some reports said that up to a million Israelis had gone abroad. I don&#039;t think Israel could have survived ten years of this war (the Palestinians of course have had over sixty). I think both violent and non-violent responses to the theft and ethnic cleansing of Palestine (all Palestine) are legitimate and necessary. My position on which is best comes down not to morality (I have no moral problem with the violence of the oppressed) but to efficacy. It may be the case that non-violence will be more efficacious at this stage, but to be honest I&#039;m not yet convinced of this. The problem is that the Israeli and Western media doesn&#039;t cover (much) the non-violent protests, that most of Israeli society is not ready to respond, that the Palestinians are cantonised and largley out of sight. American blacks were not out of siight. British India was controlled by an Indian conscript army. But certainly a non-violent campaign of BDS from abroad could be very helpful indeed. Thanks, Yaniv.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very good article, but I must agree with Roksana&#8217;s comment. The word &#8216;terrorist&#8217; is unhelpful and propagandistic. I should also point out that there was a year or two (2001/2002) in Israel when bomb attacks came almost every day. Sadly, this level of activity could not be sustained. In the time that it did continue, however, it destroyed the Israeli tourism industry, hit the economy very hard, and made many Israelis apply for another passport. Some reports said that up to a million Israelis had gone abroad. I don&#8217;t think Israel could have survived ten years of this war (the Palestinians of course have had over sixty). I think both violent and non-violent responses to the theft and ethnic cleansing of Palestine (all Palestine) are legitimate and necessary. My position on which is best comes down not to morality (I have no moral problem with the violence of the oppressed) but to efficacy. It may be the case that non-violence will be more efficacious at this stage, but to be honest I&#8217;m not yet convinced of this. The problem is that the Israeli and Western media doesn&#8217;t cover (much) the non-violent protests, that most of Israeli society is not ready to respond, that the Palestinians are cantonised and largley out of sight. American blacks were not out of siight. British India was controlled by an Indian conscript army. But certainly a non-violent campaign of BDS from abroad could be very helpful indeed. Thanks, Yaniv.</p>
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		<title>By: Roksana</title>
		<link>http://pulsemedia.org/2009/12/29/the-real-road-map-violent-reactions-to-the-struggle-for-equal-rights/#comment-7027</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Roksana]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Dec 2009 16:28:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pulsemedia.org/?p=18098#comment-7027</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[thank you for this article.

on the point of &quot;Nothing would suit Israel’s interests better than the resumption of widespread terrorist activity..&quot; why are militant actions taken by Palestinians considered &quot;terrorist activity&quot;? they are an oppressed people who are living and struggling under seemingly impossible circumstances. non-violent actions is necessary as much as militant actions in the face of an enemy that is more than eager to see their complete decimation.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thank you for this article.</p>
<p>on the point of &#8220;Nothing would suit Israel’s interests better than the resumption of widespread terrorist activity..&#8221; why are militant actions taken by Palestinians considered &#8220;terrorist activity&#8221;? they are an oppressed people who are living and struggling under seemingly impossible circumstances. non-violent actions is necessary as much as militant actions in the face of an enemy that is more than eager to see their complete decimation.</p>
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		<title>By: Tali</title>
		<link>http://pulsemedia.org/2009/12/29/the-real-road-map-violent-reactions-to-the-struggle-for-equal-rights/#comment-7026</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tali]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Dec 2009 16:06:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pulsemedia.org/?p=18098#comment-7026</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Excellent analysis. As an activist, who&#039;s been to Bil&#039;in, Ma&#039;asara, Sheik Jarrah and other choice destinations of non-violent activities, it&#039;s become very clear that soldiers and police forces are not wired up to deal with non-violence. Even in cases in which we make their options clear (&quot;let us through or arrest us- we&#039;re not resisting&quot;), they can&#039;t seem to avoid the unnecessary violence.

I&#039;d like to note one thing that irked me: The use of the word Anarchist in regards to settlers is wrong. Settlers are the exact opposite of anarchists, as they are nationalists. Misusing the word, as if &quot;anarchist&quot; was the equivalent of &quot;criminal&quot; is slanderous.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent analysis. As an activist, who&#8217;s been to Bil&#8217;in, Ma&#8217;asara, Sheik Jarrah and other choice destinations of non-violent activities, it&#8217;s become very clear that soldiers and police forces are not wired up to deal with non-violence. Even in cases in which we make their options clear (&#8220;let us through or arrest us- we&#8217;re not resisting&#8221;), they can&#8217;t seem to avoid the unnecessary violence.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d like to note one thing that irked me: The use of the word Anarchist in regards to settlers is wrong. Settlers are the exact opposite of anarchists, as they are nationalists. Misusing the word, as if &#8220;anarchist&#8221; was the equivalent of &#8220;criminal&#8221; is slanderous.</p>
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		<title>By: The Real Road Map: Violent Israeli responses to the struggle for equal rights</title>
		<link>http://pulsemedia.org/2009/12/29/the-real-road-map-violent-reactions-to-the-struggle-for-equal-rights/#comment-7024</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The Real Road Map: Violent Israeli responses to the struggle for equal rights]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Dec 2009 11:35:35 +0000</pubDate>
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