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	<title>Comments on: The Assault on Illhem</title>
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	<link>http://pulsemedia.org/2010/02/26/the-assault-on-illhem/</link>
	<description>&#34;Freedom of the press is guaranteed only to those who own one.&#34;</description>
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		<title>By: Robin Yassin-Kassab</title>
		<link>http://pulsemedia.org/2010/02/26/the-assault-on-illhem/#comment-8322</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robin Yassin-Kassab]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 03:20:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pulsemedia.org/?p=20652#comment-8322</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[my cousin, as it happens, is a very busy neurosurgeon in syria. but your idiocies really aren&#039;t worth answering, Caleb.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>my cousin, as it happens, is a very busy neurosurgeon in syria. but your idiocies really aren&#8217;t worth answering, Caleb.</p>
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		<title>By: Max Ajl</title>
		<link>http://pulsemedia.org/2010/02/26/the-assault-on-illhem/#comment-8320</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Max Ajl]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 23:10:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pulsemedia.org/?p=20652#comment-8320</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Caleb,
Why don&#039;t you find a more honest, dignified retreat than &quot;perhaps I initially should have said &#039;medical specialties&#039; or the like.&quot; Specialties include orthopedics, gynecology, etc. Black and brown people need that stuff too I think, their bones/reproductive are made of similar stuff as Western Europeans.

As for the rest of your non-sense, for one thing, thousands of the FMGs come to the US to do their residencies after their home countries have paid for their expensive medical school training. In other cases Westerners go to foreign medical schools and come back for their residencies and internships. The third-world country maintains educational infrastructure for medical school. 1st world country gets doctors. Reality, as usual, looks a little different than your fantasies of it.

As for the statement that their &quot;qualifications can&#039;t be certified,&quot; blah blah, you speak as though this is a natural law and not an institutional fact, set up to protect certain upper-middle class skilled professions. Those tests are made practically impossible so as to maintain a lower supply and thus higher compensation for doctors here. 

As for the rest, 3rd world societies need specialties. The issue is setting up institutional and economic infrastructures for them.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Caleb,<br />
Why don&#8217;t you find a more honest, dignified retreat than &#8220;perhaps I initially should have said &#8216;medical specialties&#8217; or the like.&#8221; Specialties include orthopedics, gynecology, etc. Black and brown people need that stuff too I think, their bones/reproductive are made of similar stuff as Western Europeans.</p>
<p>As for the rest of your non-sense, for one thing, thousands of the FMGs come to the US to do their residencies after their home countries have paid for their expensive medical school training. In other cases Westerners go to foreign medical schools and come back for their residencies and internships. The third-world country maintains educational infrastructure for medical school. 1st world country gets doctors. Reality, as usual, looks a little different than your fantasies of it.</p>
<p>As for the statement that their &#8220;qualifications can&#8217;t be certified,&#8221; blah blah, you speak as though this is a natural law and not an institutional fact, set up to protect certain upper-middle class skilled professions. Those tests are made practically impossible so as to maintain a lower supply and thus higher compensation for doctors here. </p>
<p>As for the rest, 3rd world societies need specialties. The issue is setting up institutional and economic infrastructures for them.</p>
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		<title>By: caleb</title>
		<link>http://pulsemedia.org/2010/02/26/the-assault-on-illhem/#comment-8317</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[caleb]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 21:23:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pulsemedia.org/?p=20652#comment-8317</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Politically correct medicine, Robin?
In sober fact, heart disease due to high cholesterol and an inactive life style is a problem in (some) advanced societies as is diabetes and gout.  On the other hand, few French children have contracted bilharzia, gone blind due to trachoma or died of cholera because they could not find safe drinking water.

If this sounds like a moral condemnation of the third world, it isn&#039;t.  The original topic was the complaint by Mad Max that immigrants were working below their educational level--due entirely to prejudice, of course.  I suggested there is another way to see this situation.  Those chaps aren&#039;t entitled to complain because they had the choice and chose to qualify themselves in fields they know don&#039;t really exist in their own countries whether it&#039;s repairing photocopy machines or neuropharmacology.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Politically correct medicine, Robin?<br />
In sober fact, heart disease due to high cholesterol and an inactive life style is a problem in (some) advanced societies as is diabetes and gout.  On the other hand, few French children have contracted bilharzia, gone blind due to trachoma or died of cholera because they could not find safe drinking water.</p>
<p>If this sounds like a moral condemnation of the third world, it isn&#8217;t.  The original topic was the complaint by Mad Max that immigrants were working below their educational level&#8211;due entirely to prejudice, of course.  I suggested there is another way to see this situation.  Those chaps aren&#8217;t entitled to complain because they had the choice and chose to qualify themselves in fields they know don&#8217;t really exist in their own countries whether it&#8217;s repairing photocopy machines or neuropharmacology.</p>
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		<title>By: caleb</title>
		<link>http://pulsemedia.org/2010/02/26/the-assault-on-illhem/#comment-8315</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[caleb]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 18:09:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pulsemedia.org/?p=20652#comment-8315</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Robin, just for you, the USA will give the country back to the Indians.  Or perhaps lose it to them shooting craps in one of the hundred plus Indian casinos now operating in the USA.

The Arab armies &quot;overrran&quot; the Berbers of North Africa in the eighth century.   In the 19th century the French returned the favor, putting the slavers and protection racketeers (the notorious &quot;Barbary Pirates&quot;) out of business.  The Arab and Berber population had been small and static with deaths keeping pace with births.  Under the French, that population grew quickly. 
Within a century It no longer was possible to sustain **Algerie francaise**.  Nor was there any economic rationale once most Europeans there held low paid city jobs which Arabs could do more cheaply.

You keep bolstering my argument with these expressions of resentment.  Immigration and the welfare state are a poor mix.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robin, just for you, the USA will give the country back to the Indians.  Or perhaps lose it to them shooting craps in one of the hundred plus Indian casinos now operating in the USA.</p>
<p>The Arab armies &#8220;overrran&#8221; the Berbers of North Africa in the eighth century.   In the 19th century the French returned the favor, putting the slavers and protection racketeers (the notorious &#8220;Barbary Pirates&#8221;) out of business.  The Arab and Berber population had been small and static with deaths keeping pace with births.  Under the French, that population grew quickly.<br />
Within a century It no longer was possible to sustain **Algerie francaise**.  Nor was there any economic rationale once most Europeans there held low paid city jobs which Arabs could do more cheaply.</p>
<p>You keep bolstering my argument with these expressions of resentment.  Immigration and the welfare state are a poor mix.</p>
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		<title>By: Robin Yassin-Kassab</title>
		<link>http://pulsemedia.org/2010/02/26/the-assault-on-illhem/#comment-8310</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robin Yassin-Kassab]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 11:35:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pulsemedia.org/?p=20652#comment-8310</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[OK, we understand. north africans should have been grateful. they came from barbarism to civilisation. the civilised white people unwisely treated the immigrants with perfect respect, and gave them riches they did not deserve. They gave them palatial residences that these scum then destroyed. If only the scum had changed their names to Jean-Jacques, converted to Catholicism, and eaten a lot of pork, they would have been fine. But unfortunately, their bodies were too simple for that. Even the educated ones, who go to nice places like america, which has always been inhabited by white people who never overran anyone, and then overrun it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, we understand. north africans should have been grateful. they came from barbarism to civilisation. the civilised white people unwisely treated the immigrants with perfect respect, and gave them riches they did not deserve. They gave them palatial residences that these scum then destroyed. If only the scum had changed their names to Jean-Jacques, converted to Catholicism, and eaten a lot of pork, they would have been fine. But unfortunately, their bodies were too simple for that. Even the educated ones, who go to nice places like america, which has always been inhabited by white people who never overran anyone, and then overrun it.</p>
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		<title>By: Robin Yassin-Kassab</title>
		<link>http://pulsemedia.org/2010/02/26/the-assault-on-illhem/#comment-8309</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robin Yassin-Kassab]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 11:30:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pulsemedia.org/?p=20652#comment-8309</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Caleb - you clearly have a picture in your head of the &#039;third world&#039; which doesn&#039;t go beyond big bellied children over-run by flies. It seems you think that &#039;undeveloped&#039; people have simpler bodies. They may suffer dysentry, but mysteriously don&#039;t suffer rare cancers or neurological conditions. Only complicated higher forms in the West (or the Western colony in Palestine) suffer these diseases.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Caleb &#8211; you clearly have a picture in your head of the &#8216;third world&#8217; which doesn&#8217;t go beyond big bellied children over-run by flies. It seems you think that &#8216;undeveloped&#8217; people have simpler bodies. They may suffer dysentry, but mysteriously don&#8217;t suffer rare cancers or neurological conditions. Only complicated higher forms in the West (or the Western colony in Palestine) suffer these diseases.</p>
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		<title>By: caleb</title>
		<link>http://pulsemedia.org/2010/02/26/the-assault-on-illhem/#comment-8301</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[caleb]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 00:22:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pulsemedia.org/?p=20652#comment-8301</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Max, perhaps I initially should have said &quot;medical specialties&quot; or the like.

The USA is so overrun with immigrant doctors that a special category had to be created for them: &quot;F.M.G.&#039;s&quot;, standing for Foreign Medical Graduates.  The major sending countries are India, Egypt and the states of the West Indies.  Many are well prepared but as their qualifications can&#039;t be certified they must pass special examinations to be allowed to practice in the USA.  Until they are qualified they work as lab techs or, yes pumping gas or driving a cab.

Not emt&#039;s but family practitioners, public health doctors to combat infectious diseases or nurse-practitioners are what is &quot;needed&quot; in the Third World.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Max, perhaps I initially should have said &#8220;medical specialties&#8221; or the like.</p>
<p>The USA is so overrun with immigrant doctors that a special category had to be created for them: &#8220;F.M.G.&#8217;s&#8221;, standing for Foreign Medical Graduates.  The major sending countries are India, Egypt and the states of the West Indies.  Many are well prepared but as their qualifications can&#8217;t be certified they must pass special examinations to be allowed to practice in the USA.  Until they are qualified they work as lab techs or, yes pumping gas or driving a cab.</p>
<p>Not emt&#8217;s but family practitioners, public health doctors to combat infectious diseases or nurse-practitioners are what is &#8220;needed&#8221; in the Third World.</p>
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		<title>By: Max Ajl</title>
		<link>http://pulsemedia.org/2010/02/26/the-assault-on-illhem/#comment-8299</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Max Ajl]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Feb 2010 23:12:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pulsemedia.org/?p=20652#comment-8299</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Caleb--
No one reading this exchange is possibly stupid enough to think that when you wrote, &quot;in Third World countries, bright people often study subjects like engineering or medicine which would be of little use to their own societies,&quot; you didn&#039;t in fact write that.

Now, if you happen to think poor people in underdeveloped countries don&#039;t need both primary care and specialist care, or that it&#039;s not feasible to implement such programs, here are my thoughts. On (1) you&#039;re a well-spoken bigot. But that&#039;s been established and I don&#039;t know why we&#039;re still indulging you. Some odd leftist libertarian streak. Don&#039;t push it. 

On (2) face some &quot;facts&quot; and you&#039;ll know that programs placing doctors [not EMTs or shamans whatever you&#039;re bizarrely suggesting.] in underdeveloped regions/countries have worked fine.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Caleb&#8211;<br />
No one reading this exchange is possibly stupid enough to think that when you wrote, &#8220;in Third World countries, bright people often study subjects like engineering or medicine which would be of little use to their own societies,&#8221; you didn&#8217;t in fact write that.</p>
<p>Now, if you happen to think poor people in underdeveloped countries don&#8217;t need both primary care and specialist care, or that it&#8217;s not feasible to implement such programs, here are my thoughts. On (1) you&#8217;re a well-spoken bigot. But that&#8217;s been established and I don&#8217;t know why we&#8217;re still indulging you. Some odd leftist libertarian streak. Don&#8217;t push it. </p>
<p>On (2) face some &#8220;facts&#8221; and you&#8217;ll know that programs placing doctors [not EMTs or shamans whatever you're bizarrely suggesting.] in underdeveloped regions/countries have worked fine.</p>
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		<title>By: Robin Yassin-Kassab</title>
		<link>http://pulsemedia.org/2010/02/26/the-assault-on-illhem/#comment-8295</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robin Yassin-Kassab]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Feb 2010 20:24:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pulsemedia.org/?p=20652#comment-8295</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[so now you are angry with palestine because it was undeveloped before you &#039;turned the desert green&#039;. Except Palestine never was a desert. True, in the declining years of the Ottoman empire the levant was terribly undeveloped. Zionists wouldn&#039;t have been able to get a foothold if the area had been strong. In previous years palestine had been greener. But when Zionists arrived, the land was nevertheless being farmed (not that it would have justified your colonial settler project if there hadn&#039;t been farms).

In Syria the fertile Ghab valey was a malarial swamp in the last years of the Ottoman empire and during the French occupation. After independence the government drained the swamp and turned the Ghab into a rich, fertile zone. They didn&#039;t need an incoming force to destroy their villages and drive the people out in order to achieve this.

Your talk about &#039;savage tribes&#039; may or may not go down well with the inhabitants of Texas, but the readership here is a different matter.

And who, exactly, &#039;invited you in&#039; to Palestine? Balfour?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>so now you are angry with palestine because it was undeveloped before you &#8216;turned the desert green&#8217;. Except Palestine never was a desert. True, in the declining years of the Ottoman empire the levant was terribly undeveloped. Zionists wouldn&#8217;t have been able to get a foothold if the area had been strong. In previous years palestine had been greener. But when Zionists arrived, the land was nevertheless being farmed (not that it would have justified your colonial settler project if there hadn&#8217;t been farms).</p>
<p>In Syria the fertile Ghab valey was a malarial swamp in the last years of the Ottoman empire and during the French occupation. After independence the government drained the swamp and turned the Ghab into a rich, fertile zone. They didn&#8217;t need an incoming force to destroy their villages and drive the people out in order to achieve this.</p>
<p>Your talk about &#8216;savage tribes&#8217; may or may not go down well with the inhabitants of Texas, but the readership here is a different matter.</p>
<p>And who, exactly, &#8216;invited you in&#8217; to Palestine? Balfour?</p>
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		<title>By: caleb</title>
		<link>http://pulsemedia.org/2010/02/26/the-assault-on-illhem/#comment-8293</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[caleb]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Feb 2010 19:29:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pulsemedia.org/?p=20652#comment-8293</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Robin, I rest my case.  You&#039;ve just proven it!
The apartments in these &quot;tower blocks&quot; were up to date, spacious  with all modern sanitation and conveniences, at least at the start.  Compared to what the North African immigrants left behind, they were positively luxurious.
But it&#039;s a worldwide phenomenon that when one just gives someone a place to live it doesn&#039;t take very long before they trash it.  People have to be invested.
You are right about these massive, high-rise **cites** being a bad way to house families.  The Americans stopped building them twenty-five years ago.  A number have been demolished.  [The French should have learned from the experience in the USA, but...]

OK, the French were bad masters and they paid the price, in Indochina and Algeria.  Drawing up ancestral balance sheets is a thankless task.
Actually the French are much less racist than the British.  The French treat anyone as an equal who fully embraces their language, culture and religion.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robin, I rest my case.  You&#8217;ve just proven it!<br />
The apartments in these &#8220;tower blocks&#8221; were up to date, spacious  with all modern sanitation and conveniences, at least at the start.  Compared to what the North African immigrants left behind, they were positively luxurious.<br />
But it&#8217;s a worldwide phenomenon that when one just gives someone a place to live it doesn&#8217;t take very long before they trash it.  People have to be invested.<br />
You are right about these massive, high-rise **cites** being a bad way to house families.  The Americans stopped building them twenty-five years ago.  A number have been demolished.  [The French should have learned from the experience in the USA, but...]</p>
<p>OK, the French were bad masters and they paid the price, in Indochina and Algeria.  Drawing up ancestral balance sheets is a thankless task.<br />
Actually the French are much less racist than the British.  The French treat anyone as an equal who fully embraces their language, culture and religion.</p>
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